The Great Bronze / Gold Debate

[Skullbeast]

Agh well ck since you were there, and looked at photos? Feldecarb!
I call bs. Seeing with your own eyes and to be able to distinguish two different colors. Gold and bronze. I know for a fact that the top crest of the garrison leaders insignia is copper! Why that then o historian of the cylon way? Im not angry just baffled.
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- Die human!

[GoldCylon]

To my knowledge the only thing is a physical item Universal supplied to any outside company was a Cylon to AVG for the Battle of Galactica, and filming miniatures of a Raider, and a Viper to Monogram. Neither copy was allowed to copy the pieces in question, but review the detail to make their own version of the items in questions. Other company's like Mattel were supplied photos to create their own version of the release. Most of these photo were black, and white, and details of color were basic like red, not a detailed color match of red. Also believe it or not a entire box of cubits were rejected. Glen did like the way they came up in the color. They were used, but 2 more boxes were ordered with a more shinny gold. Why 2, well each box had 1000 cubits each in each box, and now with an extra 2000 cubits more than planned the big piles of Starbucks win looked great. The bad rejected cubits went on the table 1st, and the a box of good cubits poured on top. A great enhancement on the pile, while the minor amount of the rejected one popping out here and there was never noticed. I also spoke with Chuck at Vac-Met about the chroming of the Cylon's. He said he did most of the Cylon's. and he also did all of the Cylon's when they started up production. Later on Uni switched over to an other company, but I guess the results were not as good as Uni had a standard for didn't work because they went back to Chuck at Vac-Met. Anyway I sent a few gold pieces to Chuck, and he quickly said that wasn't his work, and he said his colored Cylon was much darker. I asked if bronze in color, and he agreed that would have been a good choice in the color. He also said he can see why Uni might have left the other company after seeing this piece because they were burnt. He did analyze the gold pieces for a legal reason that was signed and notarized. The base coat on the piece I showed him he gave me a full report on. In short the company that did this plating is long gone, and the name at the moment escape me, but Chuck's report in short stated the pealing of the plating was due to the base coat was over baked. The burnt base coat clearly visible in some of the exposed areas were not a bright clean shinny white, but a dull cloudy finish. There is much more to this story but bottom line since two chromers were used and color samples were not issued but more like typed out on a work order or just word of mouth on a color given, and approval given when the suits are picked up. Believe me non approval cheap. Star Wars at Disney had Chuck rechrome one new guy like 15 times till THEY were happy with the color choices THEY made. He matched 100% every time the color Lucas asked for, but the finished product wasn't want they had in mind. He spent 3 weeks redoing these Star Wars robots. Galactica was so over budget every episode they had to cut and run with what ever popped out. Bottom line 3 color of Cylons do live on, and many have seen the difference including Chuck who never plated the gold guy, but they never did see the light of day in the toy line.

[Big Al]

That's some great behind the scenes history! The flaws and the buget angle are most likley to be the reason for the variations I agree.

and I did't mean to offend anyone in reguards to their opinion, and I do agree with Cylon Knight in that I studied alot about cinamatography and lighting during that era and I can tell you that his theroy about lighting conditions are correct in that before cgi and computer enhancment, they used alot of different techniques to get the effects they wanted such as the sparkly lights in the I.L. series, Sparkly blaster hits, and sparkly light points on the cylon armor. soft light diffusers were used on the cams along with lighting techniques to get that so I do understand his point about the lighting.

However I feel the merchandise (though they made quite a bit of it) did not really capture the essence of the series and my point was that just because they did not make a bronze cylon action figure dosn't mean it didn't exsit.

I have never seen a Col. Tigh figure?, I have never seen a Jolly Figure? I know they made a figure of the Borellian Nomen and the Boray charater and I can't remember where boray was even significant other than an extra.

I may be wrong on that but I have never seen one.

They never made one of the ships Doctor? and I don't think they made one of Serina. (Jane Seymour) or Zac (Rick Sprinfield)

If they did I have never seen them.

It could quite possibly be that they never intended a Bronze and like you stated it was a bad chrome job and they could not wait for the correct color and went with what they had.

They did cut alot of corners in the name of budget.

so both sides of this friendly disscusion have valid points.

[GoldCylon]

Just s few low light, and bright light comparisons, and a few off characters.

[Big Al]

Just s few low light, and bright light comparisons, and a few off characters.

I certainly can see the the variance and the difference but I also see the lighting difference and the filtering.

[FLIGHTLDR SERPENTINE]

Very interesting information! I feel I have a better understanding of what's going on.

First, I looked at 'The Young Lords' last night in great detail and saw NO gold AND copper centurions together in any shot. The image posted from inside the castle had the gold centurion behind the console and the other centurion next to him (who looks kind-of golden) actually chrome/nickel... merely reflecting the color of the lighting hanging directly above him.

As a kid it was clear to me that there was a copper centurion and a gold centurion, based on how they looked on TV. I used to watch those episodes over and over. I was lucky, as my folks already had a VCR in those days and we taped almost all the episodes when first run. So at this point I firmly believe in a gold suit and a copper-ish suit being production-made and at least somewhat independent of each other. Is the true copper color "burned gold"? I may have to find out for myself!

[FLIGHTLDR SERPENTINE]

You know, I was still thinking about it... the paint on those worn/faded boots I've seen, if they're 'real', look very copper. And I can't recall any clear views of the skirt on the copper centurion. If, in fact, he has a coppper skirt, I'd say that would probably lay the debate to rest, regardless of whether they originally set out to have both gold and copper or it being a result of bad plating. The end-result is what I am most concerned about. Any thoughts?

[Big Al]

You know, I was still thinking about it... the paint on those worn/faded boots I've seen, if they're 'real', look very copper. And I can't recall any clear views of the skirt on the copper centurion. If, in fact, he has a coppper skirt, I'd say that would probably lay the debate to rest, regardless of whether they originally set out to have both gold and copper or it being a result of bad plating. The end-result is what I am most concerned about. Any thoughts?

That's a very good point!...good eye!.....well your a movie artist so I guess it's in your blood (circuts)

We too had one of the first VCR's when I was a kid and some where I still have all of my original broadcast vids.
But I would guess the quality is pretty bad.

I have the DVD set now but it's a few years old now (made before blu ray)

I remember the vcr had 2 or 3 settings that changed the recording speed so you could stretch a tape's recording time and the the slowest speed produced a really low quality recording.

[Cylon-Knight]

So Gold Command Centurions differ from standard Chrome Centurions in that they have a totally black under suit, black mouth grill, black sail panels on the helmet and gold skirting. They also have a different pitch to their voice.

Do those who support the Copper/Bronze Centurions know if they have any other differences than armor? Or do they only have different color armor

[GoldCylon]

There was only one piece of the black under suit that survived. The walk around Cylon at the theme park used it a few times, and just wrecked the two black ones. They were threads, and look like they took body explosion hits. So two replica under suits were made. One for Vulpa, and one for the Gold Cylon. Those two colored Cylon were black under suits, black 1/4 panel on the back half of the helmet, and a black mouth grill. The had matching color boots, and a sword in the appropriate color.

[Big Al]

There was only one piece of the black under suit that survived. The walk around Cylon at the theme park used it a few times, and just wrecked the two black ones. They were threads, and look like they took body explosion hits. So two replica under suits were made. One for Vulpa, and one for the Gold Cylon. Those two colored Cylon were black under suits, black 1/4 panel on the back half of the helmet, and a black mouth grill. The had matching color boots, and a sword in the appropriate color.

Gold Cylon....You are a walking Cylon encyclopedia.....How do you know all this stuff!!

[GoldCylon]

I read my instruction manual before we took a vote, and the ground came up and hit us.

[Big Al]

I read my instruction manual before we took a vote, and the ground came up and hit us.

[Big Al]

Cylon "Oberon" Suit Owner George Metz C1-124

Ok I don't know if this will help settle this debate but I was doing some searching and I found this site.

BATTLESTAR GALACTICA CYLON CENTURION PAGE

Maybe you guy's have seen this I don't know but I thought it was very interesting and he talks about behind the scenes as a cylon, The costumes (Gold/Bronze/Chrome), and the trials and tribulations of shooting scenes in a Cylon suit.

This is his info

[attachment=4]George Metz Jpg.jpg[/attachment]

George Metz (CYLON C1-124)
13 Post Run
Newtown Square PA 19073-3014
e-mail: gwmetz@rcn.com
(610)-353-4982

NOTE: I would never post anyones Private Personal information! the reason I have posted George Metz's info here is that it is posted on his site half way down his page so apparently he has no problem with people who wish to contact him.

Here are some paragraphs form his page and one interesting note, he claims he is the only one left that still troops in his Screen used Cylon Suit


CYLON AND OTHER BATTLESTAR GALACTICA TRIVIA

About 35 vacuum-formed plastic Cylon Centurion outfits were used during the run of the series. In one scene, about a dozen Cylons are seen at one time. Each costume cost more than $3000.00 for a total cost of over $110,000.00 for all + 35 outfits. All but one or two were silver-chrome vacuum-plated. A couple were Gold toned bronze plated. The Gold Cylons represented the two-brain "C2" Officer Class and were first seen in the sixth and seventh 1978 episodes "The Gun on Ice Planet Zero 1 & 2". They also appeared in "The Living Legend" and "Hand of God". They had a lower pitched voice than the silver "C1" Centurions. The Cylons were all stunt men over 6 feet tall and after being fitted-out in the armor, they looked like 7 feet tall. Many of the Cylon outfits became damaged when Cylons were "killed" or they fell down on or off the set. Towards the end of the filming, the word came down, "The Prop Department budget is out of money - We can't kill any more Cylons"! Damaged outfits were cannibalized for parts to make others usable again.

The Cylon's roving-eye consisted of a string of small light bulbs powered by numerous battery packs contained in the bulky waist belt each Cylon wore. The batteries ran the eye for about 20 minutes per charge and the bulbs generated a lot of heat inside the helmet, limiting the amount of time the actors could spend with the helmet on. The visibilty from the helmets was quite limited and there are stories of Cylons tripping and falling over objects and other actors on the set they failed to see. There were a couple instances of whole rows of Cylons falling one after the other when one of them stumbled and sent the rest cascading to the ground. It took at least an hour or more for a Cylon to be suited-up. Also, the body suit worn under the armor was one-piece; meaning the actors had to be sure to visit the "Cylon's Rest Room" before being fitted-out to minimize emergencies of nature during the filming sessions. Filming was often interrupted so the Cylons could take their stuffy and hot helmets off for a breather, get a drink of water, and then later, to "Go Potty" after having drank so much water to keep cool. Being a Cylon Extra was an exercise in stamina and certainly not for the weak. The Cylons were filmed in dim or dark lighting to visually enhance the roving red eyes and gleaming metalized armor. Also, dim ambient light would minimize reflections on the armor from the cameras, props and other actors on the set.

Oberon's Cylon outfit, (early 2001) uses 32 red LED's for the roving eye, solid-state control and a two-piece body suit to get around the heat, battery and nature problems experienced by the Cylons of 1978 and 1980. The visibilty, however, remains very limited; but he still manages to get around pretty well on his missions of extermination.

A small number of the original Cylon outfits are now prized items in the collections of a few Sci-Fi collectors and apparently none of them are still being worn in public. Oberon's costume is one of only about a dozen made (4 gold, 8 silver) and most of those have been mounted on mannequins; leaving only a few Cylons still roaming the Galaxy. Oberon has yet to meet another Cylon, walking or not.

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Cylon "Oberon" C1-124 George Metz with Herbert Jefferson (Lt. Boomer) and Richard Hatch (Cpt. Apollo).

[attachment=3]Boomer Hatch Metz jpg.jpg[/attachment]


Cylon"Oberon" C1-124 George Metz and Dirk Benedict (Lt. Starbuck)

[attachment=2]Benedict Metz Jpg.jpg[/attachment]


Cylon vs. Stormtrooper

[attachment=1]Cylon vs. Stormtrooper Jpg.jpg[/attachment]


CYLON HIERARCHY

"C0" DRONES: The most elementary Cylon automaton. They have no brains and are hard-programmed to perform only a few defined tasks. Criminals and rebellious Cylons or others are relegated to the "C0" Drone Class by having their brain removed or being re-programmed to correct their wrongful ways. It appeared that the Cylons populating the SpaceDrome in the episode "The Living Legend" were "C0" Drones.

"C1" SINGLE BRAIN CENTURIONS: The basic Cylon "Tin Head" Soldier in silver-plated armor and with a single traversing eye. They tend to be slow moving and are capable of only very basic reasoning. They only know to follow the orders they are given. They are closely watched throughout their careers and may be tested for potential advancement to the "C2" Commander Class by having a second brain installed. Cylon Centurions seem to have the ability to know when a person is lying; possibly a trait obtained from their original reptilian Cylon builders.

"C2" TWO BRAIN COMMAND CENTURIONS: The Cylon Officer Class. Wearing gold-plated armor and like the "C1" units, having a single traversing eye; they are capable of individual action and initiative and speak in a lower pitched voice than the "C1" Single Brain Centurions. The "C2's" are generally "C1" Centurions who have been promoted by having a second brain installed to enhance their thinking and reasoning ability.

"DC" DARK CENTURIONS: Also termed "Stealth Centurions"; these later Cylon soldiers utilize a dark armor that is reptilian in appearance. The armor is more protective and defensive against laser and other weapons, making them more dangerous and deadly than the earlier Cylon Centurion models. The DC's are equipped with brains enhanced with "Human Logic Function" (HLF). This HLF, which emulates Baltar's mind and reasoning, enables the Dark Centurions to think and reason more like humans. Although HLF permits the DC's to be faster, more intelligent and better able to predict human behavior, the intensive processing of the HLF logic in their brains can also slow them down.

"IL" SERIES: The "IL" Series models, with dual counter-scanning eyes and visible working brains, were constructed to act as advisors and assistants to the "C2" Command Centurions, Warriors of the Elite Class and the Imperious Leader (IL). Unlike standard Cylons, they are capable of objective and reasoned analysis. They therefore tended to be more calculating and devious than the reptilian Cylons who made them and were able to rise to positions of high authority. Due to their advanced thinking and reasoning abilities, they were deemed not eligible nor was it desirable for them to become Imperious Leader. Lucifer and Spectre were of the "IL" Class.

"EC" WARRIORS OF THE ELITE CLASS: "C2" Command Centurions who were Executive Officers to the Imperious Leader. They had gold armor with black bands to indicate their rank. Vulpa was of the "EC" Class. He was banned by the Imperious Leader to the ice planet Arcta for opposing the Leader's views. He was later killed when the "Ravashal Pulsar Gun" on the Planet "Arcta" was destroyed by a small band of human Colonials in the episode "The Gun on Ice Planet Zero".

THE CYLON IMPERIOUS LEADER: The highest ranking and the only Cylon with three brains and an original Cylon body. He rules the entire Cylon Empire. He is said to rule for 75 yahrens (years), at which time he was to abdicate his authority or serve until death. He had the voice of the Count Iblis and he usually served until his death. The first Imperious Leader engineered the overthrow of the biological reptilian Cylons. Today, of all the Cylons, only the Imperious Leader retains reptilian form. Apparently, no means of orderly succession was ever established and an Imperious Leader could be replaced by any Cylon with the power and influence to depose him.

Please check out his page as there is alot more that I did not post.

Here is the Link again

BATTLESTAR GALACTICA CYLON CENTURION PAGE

Go take a look and even maybe give him a call or drop him an E-mail

[GoldCylon]

There is some truth to that posting, and some not. A total of 29 under suits were made. That means only 29 Cylons could even be on screen. Before the 1st Cylon was literary exploded on Carillon as the Cylon launched their 2nd sneak attack from Saga of a Star World.
There never was a single Cylon box system. After filming the parts, and pieces were dropped off in a TYPE box arrangement. For example all chest pieces in one location, gloves in an other bin, leg gauntlets in an other. So with that mix, and match of parts and pieces taken place there never was a single suit type of assignation for an actor except some boots. The guys that worked regularly did have boots assigned to them. Suiting up time at first maybe took 1 hour, but after a bit of time they had that down to about 30 minutes start to finish.
Now Oberon hasn't had his email address up and running for years. It isn't easy to tell, but he might even have a Krop Cylon suit. Maybe he adjusted it a bit, but that under suit looks like one of the original Krop under suits, and back in 2001 Krop was pretty new with those suit.